A place to learn more about the ATL protests against the Cult of Scientology
MoarXenu was on The Liddy Radio Show
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Anonymous on G Gordon Liddy Streaming Radio Live – 06/22/09 10:30am EST
G: Morning Ladies & Gentlemen. There’s a group called Anonymous and for those of you who are hearing about it for the first time, it is peopled mainly by persons who have broken away from the cult called Scientology. And we have a spokesman for Anonymous - what’s that Franklin? Franklin is saying this person is not a spokesman.
F: I don’t believe Anonymous has an official spokesman GMan.
G: Well I didn’t say he was an official spokesman, it’s a spokesman, it’s somebody from Anonymous.
F: No. But a spokesman implies that he’s the official spokesman of Anonymous and I don’t believe this group has one. However, he is very much Anonymous – our secret link with the folks who have waged an open war on the cult of Scientology and I believe he joins you now sir.
A: Helloooo GMan.
G: Yes Anonymous.
A: Hey it’s great to back here on the show with you.
G: Well it’s good to have you back and I understand that you got some really sensational charges – human trafficking, forced abortion..
A: That’s correct.
G: Good Heavens. When did this all start?
A: Well, before I get into that I want to make a little correction, you said that Anonymous is mostly people who are broken from the church of scientology. And that’s not quite correct. Anonymous started in January 2008 as a revolt primarily of young information technology professionals, and college and high school students revolting against the church of scientology suppression of free speech on the internet. They were then joined by thousands and thousands of people – older people and also the people who had been criticizing scientology, many of whom, of course, are ex-scientologists.
G: How are scientologists able to censor the internet, so to speak? How do they go about that? I mean the internet’s famous for being open and..
A: That’s correct. And that’s why we’re fighting. They use the same tactics that they use in real life. Which is they try to intimidate and one of their big issues is copyright. And so if someone puts something on the internet that has something to do about scientology, they scream copyright and try to get youtube or google or whatever to take it down. And that is probably the number one issue for freedom of speech on the internet.
G: Now I know something about copyright law and if you have something that has been published and then you have submitted it to the registrar of copyright in the Library of Congress, you can get a copyright on it. But that has to do with that particular language. I mean I can discuss the issue up one side and down the other without using that particular language and not violate copyright and I would think that the people at youtube and what have you would know enough about the law to understand that.
A: Well the key issue here GMan is Fair Use. And what we’re talking about on the internet is primarily people who are posting videos on youtube. And they will take clips from scientology materials and put them up there, but they are entirely within the boundaries of Fair Use. So much of what’s happened is scientology has used its legal muscle basically to intimidate youtube and other groups to take down videos that clearly fall within Fair Use guidelines.
G: Have they been successful in intimidating youtube and people like that?
A: They certainly have. At one point a man with connections to scientology filed 4000 DMCA requests and removed – had 4000 videos removed last year.
G: Boy that’s quite something.
A: But let me give you the blockbuster news here. Yesterday the St Petersburg Times the first of three articles which are the product of their interviews with four scientology executives. Two of them are the highest ranking scientology executives ever to defect from scientology. They are Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun. And they left within the last couple years and have lived a very low-profile life. And this is the first time they have come forward. And they’ve made some shocking revelations about the internal management of the church of scientology and its leader David Miscavige.
G: Well okay they’ve discussed the internal management of scientology. What did they have to say?
A: Well the picture that emerges is number one: is this is an abusive and violent regime that Miscavige is running. Both Rinder and Rathbun say that they themselves have been pummeled and assaulted by Miscavige on many occasions and that he..
G: Well no wonder they left.
A: ‘Scuse me?
G: I’m saying no wonder they left. Now this guy Miscavige, I mean what is he sort of a big brutal guy who beats up little people or something?
A: No, he’s a little brutal guy that beats up big people. He is a midget really, he’s a small, tiny, guy. But he is a tough guy and he managed to wrestle power in the church of scientology and become the absolute leader at the age of 26.
G: Okay so now he’s a little midgety guy – he’s the leader of the church of scientology..
A: Right..
G: How does he manage to beat up bigger people?
A: Well it’s a regime of terror. In that position there are two things that you can manipulate, one is the loyalty and devotion of your employees of scientology – the other thing is that scientology is basically kind of a psychotherapy. So all of these executives and workers are engaged in a process of counseling called auditing and unlike an ordinary psychotherapist where you say what you’re comfortable saying this is in the manner of interrogation. They ask you lists of very detailed questions and so all the dirt in your life comes out and goes into what is supposed to be a confidential counseling file. However, one of the revelations that came out in the St Petersburg Times story is that the policing authority internally takes information out of those counseling folders and uses them to interrogate people on security. So the regime really has a very tight control on people and, you know, the ability to threaten that their confidential information will be used against them.
G: I see, okay. So what did they publish in the St Petersburg Times?
A: Well they published some very interesting things – they published many, many accounts of David Miscavige’s brutalities, violence, his assaults and what they also did was provided us with some background information and details on two very important issues. One is the death of Lisa McPherson from scientology malpractice which was a huge scandal for scientology.
G: Now you say she died as a result of scientology malpractice. What was the malpractice? What did she die of? What did the death certificate say?
A: Okay the first thing you need to understand about scientology is that it is – it hates psychiatry. It is absolutely opposed to psychiatry and psychology in any form.
G: Well from what you tell me they would be rivals in..
A: That is correct. In fact, the president of the APA in an interview in San Francisco in May said that psychiatry is the only medical specialty that has a particular and dedicated hate group. So scientology is basically an anti-psychiatry hate group. They have their own means of dealing with neuroses and psychoses which is largely vitamins, saunas, and stuff like that. And what happened in this case with Lisa McPherson, she was an employee of the church of scientology and she had reached a state of what scientology calls clear where she’s supposed to be free of all sorts of psychological conditions. And she got into a car accident. Physically she was fine, but she had a psychotic break. She was taken to a hospital and treated by psychiatrists. Soon after that, ten scientologists..
G: What do you mean by a psychotic break?
A: Well in Lisa’s case what happened was after the car accident she was wandering around in the streets babbling basically, and she took off all her clothes. So the psychotic break is when you really lose touch with reality, you have no control over those things. And there may be a considerable amount of internal agitation and the like.
G: Okay so she’s wandering around naked after an accident..
A: Right.
G: And then what happened?
A: She was taken to a hospital, given some psychiatric treatment – soon after ten scientologists came to get her out of the hands of the psychiatrists. They got her away, they took her to the Fort Harrison hotel, which is the scientology installation in Clearwater Florida, and they put her in isolation and they gave her vitamins and basically let her be dehydrated. The coroner’s report said that the last ten days of her life she had been dehydrated and what happened was when things got very bad, they took her to a hospital with a scientology doctor. And in doing that, they bypassed three other hospitals that were closer. And she was dead on arrival.
G: She died of dehydration?
A: Yes. And the coroner’s report said that she had bites on her body, that were indicative of insect or cockroach bites.
G: Cockroach bites. Good Heavens. My guest is Anonymous – one of the silent warriors fighting the church of scientology. And if you’d like to join this discussion just call 1-800-445-4339. When we return I’m going to ask my guest to tell us a little more about the more spooky aspects of the so-called church and we’ll get into the implications of the recent revelations regarding scientologists an of two of its highest ranking defectors.
G: Alright Ladies & Gentlemen, my guest is Anonymous – one of the silent warriors fighting the church of scientology. And he’s reporting about a series of articles I guess it is in the St Petersburg Times newspaper. And it published three blockbusting articles on the regime of scientology leader, David Miscavige. And there are several people that they interviewed who were defectors from the church of scientology. There’s Messrs Rinder and Rathburn [sic] and two other scientology executives; Tom De Vocht, who supervised the church’s Flag Land Base HDQ in Clearwater Florida, and Amy Scobee, who helped create the scientology’s celebrity recruitment program, which was successful in recruiting Tom Cruise and John Travolta. And there are allegations of coerced abortion and human trafficking – can you discuss those please?
A: Yes, I’d like to do that, GMan, and I would also like to talk a little bit about the politics of this thing. Because involvement with scientology, I think at this point, is going to become pure political poison for both republicans and democrats. So let me lay this out. There are three members of scientology’s management staff organization called the three - the Sea Org, who have filed cases in California. And they have been filed by Marc Headley and Claire Headley, who are two scientologists that grew up in scientology and they’re in their mid-30’s and have two kids. And the third person is Laura DeCrescenzo. Now all three of them, their charges are for human trafficking, which is basically they are alleging that the scientology used coercion and fraud to get them into the organization..
G: Wait a minute you said they were born into it.
A: No, they were born into scientology, but all these people actually had to go through the process of being recruited and being inducted into the Sea Org organization that runs scientology. Previously they were just what’s called public scientologists which are rank-and-file scientologists. So what we have are these three people and the two women were coerced into abortion. Claire Headley was forced into abortion twice and Laura DeCrescenzo once. And the interesting thing about Laura is she was recruited into Sea Org as a teenager at twelve, married at sixteen, coerced into abortion at seventeen, when she was still a minor. She then got pregnant a second time and she faked a suicide attempt with bleach and ordered to get out of this mess. So you have those three cases here and they have now gone up to Federal court within the Ninth Circuit which means there may be some interest and some precedence setting in these cases. That’s going on in California. At the same time in France there is a case against scientology for corporate fraud. And France has a 2-strikes law. And the 2-strikes law says that if any organization is committed of crimes as an organization, twice, the French government has the option to dissolve the organization. This is a second case of fraud that scientology has faced in France and so the prosecutor has asked that it be dissolved. The court heard arguments, thy were closed last week and they’re going to deliver judgment in October. So you have a Sword of Damocles hanging over David Miscavige’s head that scientology may be dissolved in France in October. So you’ve got legal cases in California of coerced abortion and trafficking and you’ve got fraud cases in – a fraud case in France.
G: Okay now coerced abortion is one thing, what’s this human trafficking? What’s the allegation there?
A: The allegation is – well there’s a UN protocol on trafficking of human persons and, you know, in common way of speaking when you say human trafficking people think oh, sex slavery or oh, migrant labor. But in fact, the core of this thing is coercion and deception for exploitation. It may be for sexual exploitation, it may be labor exploitation – the allegations here with Sea Org are, is that they engaged in deception and coercion and absolute control of people’s ability to move communicate with people for the purpose of exploiting their labor for the church of scientology.
G: Okay well how can our listeners learn more about Anonymous?
A: The way your listeners can learn more about Anonymous is to go to our forum and it’s called whyweprotest.net.
G: whyweprotest.net
A: Correct.
G: Alright well thank you very much sir we’ve run out of time for this hour but I appreciate your efforts.
Audio: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=93WXBG87
Transcript here:
Anonymous on G Gordon Liddy Streaming Radio Live – 06/22/09 10:30am EST
G: Morning Ladies & Gentlemen. There’s a group called Anonymous and for those of you who are hearing about it for the first time, it is peopled mainly by persons who have broken away from the cult called Scientology. And we have a spokesman for Anonymous - what’s that Franklin? Franklin is saying this person is not a spokesman.
F: I don’t believe Anonymous has an official spokesman GMan.
G: Well I didn’t say he was an official spokesman, it’s a spokesman, it’s somebody from Anonymous.
F: No. But a spokesman implies that he’s the official spokesman of Anonymous and I don’t believe this group has one. However, he is very much Anonymous – our secret link with the folks who have waged an open war on the cult of Scientology and I believe he joins you now sir.
A: Helloooo GMan.
G: Yes Anonymous.
A: Hey it’s great to back here on the show with you.
G: Well it’s good to have you back and I understand that you got some really sensational charges – human trafficking, forced abortion..
A: That’s correct.
G: Good Heavens. When did this all start?
A: Well, before I get into that I want to make a little correction, you said that Anonymous is mostly people who are broken from the church of scientology. And that’s not quite correct. Anonymous started in January 2008 as a revolt primarily of young information technology professionals, and college and high school students revolting against the church of scientology suppression of free speech on the internet. They were then joined by thousands and thousands of people – older people and also the people who had been criticizing scientology, many of whom, of course, are ex-scientologists.
G: How are scientologists able to censor the internet, so to speak? How do they go about that? I mean the internet’s famous for being open and..
A: That’s correct. And that’s why we’re fighting. They use the same tactics that they use in real life. Which is they try to intimidate and one of their big issues is copyright. And so if someone puts something on the internet that has something to do about scientology, they scream copyright and try to get youtube or google or whatever to take it down. And that is probably the number one issue for freedom of speech on the internet.
G: Now I know something about copyright law and if you have something that has been published and then you have submitted it to the registrar of copyright in the Library of Congress, you can get a copyright on it. But that has to do with that particular language. I mean I can discuss the issue up one side and down the other without using that particular language and not violate copyright and I would think that the people at youtube and what have you would know enough about the law to understand that.
A: Well the key issue here GMan is Fair Use. And what we’re talking about on the internet is primarily people who are posting videos on youtube. And they will take clips from scientology materials and put them up there, but they are entirely within the boundaries of Fair Use. So much of what’s happened is scientology has used its legal muscle basically to intimidate youtube and other groups to take down videos that clearly fall within Fair Use guidelines.
G: Have they been successful in intimidating youtube and people like that?
A: They certainly have. At one point a man with connections to scientology filed 4000 DMCA requests and removed – had 4000 videos removed last year.
G: Boy that’s quite something.
A: But let me give you the blockbuster news here. Yesterday the St Petersburg Times the first of three articles which are the product of their interviews with four scientology executives. Two of them are the highest ranking scientology executives ever to defect from scientology. They are Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun. And they left within the last couple years and have lived a very low-profile life. And this is the first time they have come forward. And they’ve made some shocking revelations about the internal management of the church of scientology and its leader David Miscavige.
G: Well okay they’ve discussed the internal management of scientology. What did they have to say?
A: Well the picture that emerges is number one: is this is an abusive and violent regime that Miscavige is running. Both Rinder and Rathbun say that they themselves have been pummeled and assaulted by Miscavige on many occasions and that he..
G: Well no wonder they left.
A: ‘Scuse me?
G: I’m saying no wonder they left. Now this guy Miscavige, I mean what is he sort of a big brutal guy who beats up little people or something?
A: No, he’s a little brutal guy that beats up big people. He is a midget really, he’s a small, tiny, guy. But he is a tough guy and he managed to wrestle power in the church of scientology and become the absolute leader at the age of 26.
G: Okay so now he’s a little midgety guy – he’s the leader of the church of scientology..
A: Right..
G: How does he manage to beat up bigger people?
A: Well it’s a regime of terror. In that position there are two things that you can manipulate, one is the loyalty and devotion of your employees of scientology – the other thing is that scientology is basically kind of a psychotherapy. So all of these executives and workers are engaged in a process of counseling called auditing and unlike an ordinary psychotherapist where you say what you’re comfortable saying this is in the manner of interrogation. They ask you lists of very detailed questions and so all the dirt in your life comes out and goes into what is supposed to be a confidential counseling file. However, one of the revelations that came out in the St Petersburg Times story is that the policing authority internally takes information out of those counseling folders and uses them to interrogate people on security. So the regime really has a very tight control on people and, you know, the ability to threaten that their confidential information will be used against them.
G: I see, okay. So what did they publish in the St Petersburg Times?
A: Well they published some very interesting things – they published many, many accounts of David Miscavige’s brutalities, violence, his assaults and what they also did was provided us with some background information and details on two very important issues. One is the death of Lisa McPherson from scientology malpractice which was a huge scandal for scientology.
G: Now you say she died as a result of scientology malpractice. What was the malpractice? What did she die of? What did the death certificate say?
A: Okay the first thing you need to understand about scientology is that it is – it hates psychiatry. It is absolutely opposed to psychiatry and psychology in any form.
G: Well from what you tell me they would be rivals in..
A: That is correct. In fact, the president of the APA in an interview in San Francisco in May said that psychiatry is the only medical specialty that has a particular and dedicated hate group. So scientology is basically an anti-psychiatry hate group. They have their own means of dealing with neuroses and psychoses which is largely vitamins, saunas, and stuff like that. And what happened in this case with Lisa McPherson, she was an employee of the church of scientology and she had reached a state of what scientology calls clear where she’s supposed to be free of all sorts of psychological conditions. And she got into a car accident. Physically she was fine, but she had a psychotic break. She was taken to a hospital and treated by psychiatrists. Soon after that, ten scientologists..
G: What do you mean by a psychotic break?
A: Well in Lisa’s case what happened was after the car accident she was wandering around in the streets babbling basically, and she took off all her clothes. So the psychotic break is when you really lose touch with reality, you have no control over those things. And there may be a considerable amount of internal agitation and the like.
G: Okay so she’s wandering around naked after an accident..
A: Right.
G: And then what happened?
A: She was taken to a hospital, given some psychiatric treatment – soon after ten scientologists came to get her out of the hands of the psychiatrists. They got her away, they took her to the Fort Harrison hotel, which is the scientology installation in Clearwater Florida, and they put her in isolation and they gave her vitamins and basically let her be dehydrated. The coroner’s report said that the last ten days of her life she had been dehydrated and what happened was when things got very bad, they took her to a hospital with a scientology doctor. And in doing that, they bypassed three other hospitals that were closer. And she was dead on arrival.
G: She died of dehydration?
A: Yes. And the coroner’s report said that she had bites on her body, that were indicative of insect or cockroach bites.
G: Cockroach bites. Good Heavens. My guest is Anonymous – one of the silent warriors fighting the church of scientology. And if you’d like to join this discussion just call 1-800-445-4339. When we return I’m going to ask my guest to tell us a little more about the more spooky aspects of the so-called church and we’ll get into the implications of the recent revelations regarding scientologists an of two of its highest ranking defectors.
G: Alright Ladies & Gentlemen, my guest is Anonymous – one of the silent warriors fighting the church of scientology. And he’s reporting about a series of articles I guess it is in the St Petersburg Times newspaper. And it published three blockbusting articles on the regime of scientology leader, David Miscavige. And there are several people that they interviewed who were defectors from the church of scientology. There’s Messrs Rinder and Rathburn [sic] and two other scientology executives; Tom De Vocht, who supervised the church’s Flag Land Base HDQ in Clearwater Florida, and Amy Scobee, who helped create the scientology’s celebrity recruitment program, which was successful in recruiting Tom Cruise and John Travolta. And there are allegations of coerced abortion and human trafficking – can you discuss those please?
A: Yes, I’d like to do that, GMan, and I would also like to talk a little bit about the politics of this thing. Because involvement with scientology, I think at this point, is going to become pure political poison for both republicans and democrats. So let me lay this out. There are three members of scientology’s management staff organization called the three - the Sea Org, who have filed cases in California. And they have been filed by Marc Headley and Claire Headley, who are two scientologists that grew up in scientology and they’re in their mid-30’s and have two kids. And the third person is Laura DeCrescenzo. Now all three of them, their charges are for human trafficking, which is basically they are alleging that the scientology used coercion and fraud to get them into the organization..
G: Wait a minute you said they were born into it.
A: No, they were born into scientology, but all these people actually had to go through the process of being recruited and being inducted into the Sea Org organization that runs scientology. Previously they were just what’s called public scientologists which are rank-and-file scientologists. So what we have are these three people and the two women were coerced into abortion. Claire Headley was forced into abortion twice and Laura DeCrescenzo once. And the interesting thing about Laura is she was recruited into Sea Org as a teenager at twelve, married at sixteen, coerced into abortion at seventeen, when she was still a minor. She then got pregnant a second time and she faked a suicide attempt with bleach and ordered to get out of this mess. So you have those three cases here and they have now gone up to Federal court within the Ninth Circuit which means there may be some interest and some precedence setting in these cases. That’s going on in California. At the same time in France there is a case against scientology for corporate fraud. And France has a 2-strikes law. And the 2-strikes law says that if any organization is committed of crimes as an organization, twice, the French government has the option to dissolve the organization. This is a second case of fraud that scientology has faced in France and so the prosecutor has asked that it be dissolved. The court heard arguments, thy were closed last week and they’re going to deliver judgment in October. So you have a Sword of Damocles hanging over David Miscavige’s head that scientology may be dissolved in France in October. So you’ve got legal cases in California of coerced abortion and trafficking and you’ve got fraud cases in – a fraud case in France.
G: Okay now coerced abortion is one thing, what’s this human trafficking? What’s the allegation there?
A: The allegation is – well there’s a UN protocol on trafficking of human persons and, you know, in common way of speaking when you say human trafficking people think oh, sex slavery or oh, migrant labor. But in fact, the core of this thing is coercion and deception for exploitation. It may be for sexual exploitation, it may be labor exploitation – the allegations here with Sea Org are, is that they engaged in deception and coercion and absolute control of people’s ability to move communicate with people for the purpose of exploiting their labor for the church of scientology.
G: Okay well how can our listeners learn more about Anonymous?
A: The way your listeners can learn more about Anonymous is to go to our forum and it’s called whyweprotest.net.
G: whyweprotest.net
A: Correct.
G: Alright well thank you very much sir we’ve run out of time for this hour but I appreciate your efforts.
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